Stay Away from the 4 Horsemen

In today's video, Samuel discusses the four horsemen in recovery including the #1 predictor of divorce in marriage and recovery.

GOTTMAN, J. M., & SILVER, N. (1999). The Seven Principles for Making Marriage Work. New York, Three Rivers Press.

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4 horsemen

Submitted by Lange (not verified) on Wed, 03/02/2016 - 09:46

Please cite the book you are referring to: Author's name, and accurate title. Your summary makes me want to read the book.

Lange....here you go

Submitted by Samuel on Wed, 03/02/2016 - 11:35

I butchered it in the vlog, my apologies, so here is a link to the book: http://www.amazon.com/Seven-Principles-Making-Marriage-Work/dp/0553447718/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1456940107&sr=8-1&keywords=gottman+seven+principles+for+making+marriage+work

4 Horsemen

Submitted by CK4UBTH on Wed, 03/02/2016 - 11:08

Sadly the recovery path from my husbands betrayal (3 year emotion and physical affair) , not only invited all 4 horseman into our marriage , they EACH TOOK UP A GUEST ROOM . Can you address each one and specific ways to overcome each challenge? EMS weekend, HH, H4H, EMDR and support groups has helped - as it has prevent a divorce and pulled my husband out of his FOG, but we just keep dancing with these four challenges. 1 full year out. 23 years marriage , 2 kids, dog and apparently 4 horses.

CK4UBTH thanks for the

Submitted by Samuel on Wed, 03/02/2016 - 11:34

CK4UBTH thanks for the comment and for watching. here is alink to the book as no one can talk about diffusing them better than he can. http://www.amazon.com/Seven-Principles-Making-Marriage-Work/dp/0553447718/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1456939799&sr=8-1&keywords=gottman+seven+principles+for+making+marriage+work my next vlog talks about repair attempts and they're success at diffusing the four horsemen so look for that soon as it will help immeasurably. one full year out isn't very long my friend. i know it hurts and you want to be farther along, but it takes solid time to repair the damage. have you seen the recovery timeline article? it may help: https://www.affairrecovery.com/newsletter/founders/2010-03-timeline i get it that it's frustrating for sure, but if you've received that level of help, i think you'll make a turn for the better very soon. these challenges are not easy and samantha and i have had a few tough rides with horses here and there not even related to infidelity per se, but we've been able to find huge momentum. the book will help as you read it through the filter of infidelity and learning how to diffuse the horses. the repair attempt vlog will help as well. thanks again for commenting and watching.

I found this vlog very

Submitted by Emmasmom (not verified) on Thu, 03/03/2016 - 09:38

I found this vlog very helpful. I am 2 years, 7 months away from D day. I completely agree that at this point what I struggle with more is the lying and breaking my trust and our vows rather than the actual affair. This vlog helped me put a label on what I have been feeling. Contempt. I didn't recognize it until Samuel spelled it out. I shocks me sometimes how angry I can still become when I allow myself to think about what he did. I found out about his affair 2 days before our 20th wedding anniversary. I was completely blindsided. I know people will say, looking back I ignored signs, honestly, there were no signs. He was that good at lying and covering his tracks and betraying me and that's what hurts the most. I lived my vows, blindly trusted him, supported him, and he betrayed everything we had. We went to counseling for a little over a year, but have since stopped. I felt we weren't getting the help we needed and I felt I couldn't be really honest during our sessions. After viewing this vlog, I realize now I need to find someone to help me/us deal with the destructive feelings I am still carrying around inside me. Thank you.

Thank you Samuel!

Submitted by willaT on Thu, 03/03/2016 - 10:46

Thank you Samuel!

I read Gottman's book when my husband's emotional affair first came to light. He came forward and said something had gotten off track with his friendship with a co-worker and we went to couple's therapy. I felt safe by his original effort but the relationship didn't end and the therapy didn't work. Oh, how i wished it could have been the right fit and oh how I wished it would have ended there.

However, I watch this today and I feel optimistic. Gottman's book was hard for me because I felt like if any of the Horseman showed their face, we were doomed and so rather than fight, we both avoided, stuffed and didn't speak our truth. What I've learned since then is that we are human and these horses are going to make their way into our communication. They are. It is a part of it, especially when all of the pain, heartache and hurt of infidelity is involved. However, empathy, shared meaning, mirroring, time outs, HURT letters, and sharing truth all does create a more helpful and healthy environment where love is cultivated. When we use these tool, I feel understood and heard. There is soothing. There is healing.

Of course, We are still fighting. (Yes, there was yelling and tears and slaming doors this morning right before work). We are five months post D-day and there is contempt--absolutely. There is anger and defensiveness, stonewalling, and criticism. a profound sense of loss and a huge sense of disappointment. Yes, Yes, yes. Sad to say, but yes.

But we also seem to know how to pick of the horseshit and shoo them out of our home and our hearts now and so it is progress. So there was also a long apology email on my part this morning, which talked about how constantly being in trouble must be hard and constantly having to look at the worst thing you did is exhausting and never being able to seemingly perform your way out, must be challenging. So, it was progress.

A messy, human progress, but progress none the less.

These sound so good, but flop in practice

Submitted by beaten down (not verified) on Fri, 03/04/2016 - 19:06

Samuel - I appreciate your honesty and openness with these vlogs. I am an unfaithful and we are almost 4 years after DDay....I watch them and have hope, but then I try to apply these and it just explodes on me. It feels like church and having to meet a set of impossible standards with an angry person watching over the efforts. I'm not a patient person by nature, and want to get results or manipulate things so that they can get fixed. It's been reassuring that this effort takes time, but I feel so imperfect and feel like if it's not my wife keeping the 4 Horsemen fed, it's me. Thank you for being honest, throwing these grenades onto the table, and letting us see the carnage and repair that you've experienced.

you're very welcome.

Submitted by Samuel on Mon, 03/07/2016 - 14:55

i'm sorry it's such a challenging road at times. i felt the same way several times. to think it's not hard is a gross understatement. it's just overwhelmingly difficult for anyone. i hope i don't make you feel frustrated at what i say we have had happened to us and with us in our recovery, but that it motivates you to press forward to what it can look like with grace, the right help, patience, a strategy and time. your visual was both hilarious and spot on. i always try to be redemptive in all that i say or do and hope it's coming off right to you and everyone else.

This really opened my eyes to repair and hope

Submitted by Anonymous (not verified) on Sat, 03/05/2016 - 11:47

Thank you so much for this Samuel. It made me do some serious thinking.
I would also like to thank you for doing these videos, sometimes I
wish they were much longer. You have an amazing way of speaking and
getting points across. This topic of the Four Horsemen is one of those
that I wish you would speak more on. I will go and get the book as well,
but I would like to hear more from you on how these come into play after an affair.

I have been dealing with my husbands infidelity in one form or another for years. He worked in entertainment and was away from home a lot of the time and had many fans. He went from emailing (mostly in the first 5 to 6 years we were together), to an long distance emotional affair that I discovered before it became sexual, to 2 sexual affairs.

I see now that it was the game of it that excited him. We are almost at the 2 and 3 year point from our D-days. I say 2 and 3 because he held back the full truth about one of the affairs for a year, ( not a good plan on his part).

I must say that we both got excellent help with counsellors together and alone, for the first year after. Unfortunately they all moved on and are no longer available to us. My husband
really worked hard with his recovery, and still works hard at loving me and doing
everything and anything to keep me and our marriage safe. He does not however want to talk about it. Which I feel I need to do especially since I no longer have the support of the counsellors to talk to. I also feel I still need a lot more help with my recovery, and the one person I need to talk to the most is him. In a way it really angers and upsets me to see he doing so well with his recovery while I feel I'm so far behind. Have you ever heard this from any other betrayed spouses. Did Samantha ever feel this way?

I can understand why the person who had the affair wouldn't want to bring the subject up, but why can't they understand that we need to talk about it. and if they say they want to do everything and anything to repair the marriage and help us heal, why are they not stepping up to the plate to talk to us about what happened? By not coming to me to talk about it makes me feel like he is just hoping it will go away by avoiding the subject. The longer we go without talking about it the more it festers inside me and the more angry and hurt I become, then I find myself lashing out at him. So when I do bring it up, I am already like a ticking time bomb. Why can't he see that I need him to be the one to come to me and talk. This would show me he is taking responsibility for his all he had done. This is huge to me. Any advice you can give on this would surely help.

You are correct in saying we can get over the affair part of it to a certain degree, and that it is the lies and sneaking around that really do a number on us. This is the part I have trouble dealing with. Since I have spent nearly the entire 15 years I have been with him living in his lies, I have no idea if I am now living in truth. (he was an expert at his lies), and I still feel a need to keep my guard up. This along with dribbling out the discovery facts and not coming to talk to me, have all added to this and seem to keep me stuck from being able to move forward.

I have a lot of hurt and anger inside me. I think I discovered from your video that I still feel a lot of contempt and have for a very long time, not only from the last affairs but compounded from all the years we have been together. Not only that, I think I may have been using criticism to lash out at him. In fact I am sure now after watching this that is exactly what I have done. I also see I am not the bad person I thought I was, I was just reaching out for love and attention, and when those needs weren't met I reacted in a very negative way. This was a huge discovery for me, I would sure love to have some insight on how to correct this behaviour.

Samuel I love my husband and want to heal and move forward in our marriage. After I heard you speak on this subject of the 4 horsemen, it has given me some some new insight to see how and why things are the way they are in our marriage, and something we could really work on to repair it. I wish that you would please speak more on this and how it effects couples after an affair. I would like to hear your views about criticism, and how each of us could help in repairing each of the 4 horsemen after an affair. I see now today that you did do a follow up video on this but I would still like to hear more if you could.
Dealing with the aftermath of an affair is crazy making stuff. I need to thank you from the bottom of my heart for all that you do. Your videos and the emails from Rick are my only support now. I am so grateful to have found Affair Recovery right after discovery, God bless you all.

thank you pat...

Submitted by Samuel on Mon, 03/07/2016 - 15:24

thank you for the response. i'm going to be doing a new round of vlogs soon addressing each one as a few have asked for that specifically. thank you so much for sharing your thoughts and feedback with me. yes to your answer. i didn't want to talk about it and samantha had to. she was so frustrated at my lack of wanting to talk. rick was pretty hard on me about it as it's pure lunacy and selfish to be honest. here are a few reasons why they don't want to talk about it, as it's all due to shame: https://www.affairrecovery.com/newsletter/founder/infidelity-pain-ways-to-stay-in-shame this one will help too: https://www.affairrecovery.com/newsletter/founder/infidelity-recovery-understanding-the-paralysis-of-shame i learned eventually how selfish i was being and how i was just continuing to remain self absorbed and how i had to be a man, be brave, own it and talk about it. i had to realize if i was in fact, so healed and sooooo healthy, that i could talk about it. talking about differs from fixating on it and he'll need to know the difference as the site will help if he is willing to get help. it's easy now to talk about it. but then it was hard. the right help with the right strategy may really help him understand the need to talk about it. has he been on the site much at all or read any articles? is he open to talking to someone and getting help or what do you think his mindset is?

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What to read next

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What type of affair was it?

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